started 8pm pst ended 11pm pst
*Comments are open for input
Tito Frank started with talk on Lamentations
Tito Joe started with personal aspect (how he was affected)
Layout of Forum:
Questions are pre-made, no debate, just moderated answer
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Q:What are the reasons you couldnt solve the problems, if only 2 problems/differences (most important)
joe - gk, fp->govern w/o spiritual...
frank - educate, resources all to gk (social, not spiritual)
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Q:(directed at Tito Frank)feb20- pulled out, you said never leave it (CFC).. why split? what about that statement? wouldn't you rather stay and serve and help fix?
frank- I have not left..always cfc, they did not leave, we are cfc
difficulties, he tried to work with them, it is a blessing cause of the community
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Q:issues of cbcp-have they been addressed? if not, how can they?
joe: certain realities were there, many workers were hurt from paper, cause many committed to the vision. many issues in gk3 paper, many addressed already, but were there before IC elected , some realities not there - no specific example
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Q:-what measures of hope do you bring? what chance of unity, can discussions in the PI be there?
frank -look forward to unity with bishops and groups - conflict is in the IC, the people there- the problem is still there. We have to remove the conflict, realty of seperation is there, two branches is a proposal- one is social, one is original.. but can work together, maybe on annual events
joe- IC believes that there can be unity, must be one culture, one structure that is how unity can be achieved
conitnue to be open to mocement of FFl, and willing for everyone to come back
proposal wont work with the resignation - objectively,IC was properly elected, and no assurance that ffl will come back at that point. Problems will still be there.
There will be oppertunities, may be arguements - hope this doesn't create example for future actions (dont' want future election arguments to just create new groups) -desire for openness, only one proposal on table right now.
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Q: (directed at Tito Frank): one CFC but two branches, cfc-gk, cfc ffl. How would that proposal work?
frank: both would have joint activities, share speakers, activities, etc... own leadership/charism, but bound by spiritual brotherhood
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Q:Is your position same as Tony meloto:? To stop recieving money from drug companies?
joe: will work with bishops on those partners, no specifics found...pfizer- was one , and acquired abortificent, but they changed the work,, and head is cfc member.. so there may be more..follow church teachings..
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Q: would this have happneed still if he resigned?
frank - collective guilt was reason to resign, and in spirit of lamnetations, it was the way to do it.. and to prepare for what was ahead
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Q:Since we recognize the issues in gk, and catholic morals - now that they are aware and directive to clean up, dont you think its time to let go an let God.. and trust that the Lord is in control?
frank - we do always trust God, but they (things) still happened.. you have to look at it cause it had to be an issue. they have been there for awhile. been trying to address it, but no move foward, but trying to address it. but still don't all agree
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Q:cfcgk2 -letter - did you endanger gk, can we close and alienate. or compromise in order to protect the partner
joe: not hiding cfc, not openly there, but partners knew, the caretakers team were always known..maybe not actively.
always announced cfc as behind gk. cfc shouldnt be a silent group
partners always knew it and it was mentined by the partners
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Q:spiritual director in cfc - break away is not action, be supportive..some mebers were asked to choose between frank or IC, dont make them choose, choice is not easy, such as divorce
frank - countries should insulate themselves, conflict is in Manila, not here, in US -> NC didnt agree, and started to choose sides, so conflict came here - if possible , he is for it..
joe:not a matter of making a choice.. shouldn't have been there, but ffl has now been organized and so a choice will be needed. your NC here, there are two. fighting authorities, one global family, but a new NC was created..
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Q:why did you allow cfc and gk issues linger while you were director
frank: not frank exerciseing power, all are equal, decision is 7 man council
but problem wasnt told to people
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Q:Why cant IC resign, just cause the 200 BOE elected you, cant you take the sacrafice when 163 countries need peace
- joe: more conflicts will happen, more want us to stay and it (problem) wont go away
Q: Is it possible to amend cfc constiution so these conflicts wont happen again
frank - many lessons learned, can take reccomendation
joe: good oppurtunity, will look into it
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Q:what about investigation of latchie from IC.. what was it based on?
joe: specific complaints directed to latchie
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...poor reception... - had bad audio feed on phone
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Q:Did frank and tony and latchie thnk of their actions and what would happen? can cfcusa operate independently?
frank: greater involvement of leadeship, does not have to be manila always dictate the issue
as far as family minitries - children are effected: all effected differently - can make own decision, sfc own decision, kfc different...
two cfc will have family ministry- they are the victims
joe: We tried to work things out- guiding discussions
usa sfc statements..and trying what is humanly possible, concern with youth is important. What happens here, no fixed anchors in US, see what other solutions are possible
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Q:vatican/cbcp - remain with ic, where they veering
joe: never was an issue that cfc was recognized, --- issues with leadership, not cfc. Vatican investigation can occur, direct threat, one of the other..
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Q:Is it true that frank spoke of two branches, one cfc from aug mtg
why ic deny this:
joe: IC is for all pillars, not fair to be labeled as social only..committed to pursue the fullness so didnt agree to it (the proposal)..
its not just gk, all minitires are still there
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Q:why resign feb , why not repent, is it whole truth:
frank: nothing hidden, felt very needed to shock the body..
did not know this much though. Needed to follow lamentations
Q: (directed at joe): political ambitions or brothers? would you support political company?
joe: no political ambitions - tony - not seen as running for president
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*poor reception**
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Q: how to meet gk777, manpower is down, how does this effect evagelization, spiritual track?
Joe: more to gk than the numbers
Gk allowed us to more areas to move into.
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Q:now that cfc is seperated..why frank did you change it (name)?
frank- not changing name- he did not label it
materials are still for eveyone, all talks, all tracks
The IC CFC is not cfc-gk.. not just a social minsitry
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Q:new group - will be able to establish, only recognize from antipollo,
frank -more than that- you can do more work, but need that recognition
Closing
frank- somewhow we will continue, grew up with family,
joe:ask for forgiveness, enemy is evil one, not brothers and sisters of oneside or the other
we are in spiritual battle, and need to arm ourselves, contune to be united in service
i will go over the sound bytes again and blog in details..God Bless
(last update: formatting and some spell check - 10:03EST 9/13/07)
3 comments:
I think that was a healthy conversation, I think the questions in the end evened out. I was happy to hear that the 2 major issues were similar, and happy to hear Tito Frank retract his labeling of CFC-IC as CFC-GK.
I was also happy to hear Tito Frank explain better his reasons for events and his surprise of how far it has gone, as well as the suggested insulation of countries from the Manila matters. To add to that, I am also glad that Tito Joe Tale stated all pillars still are existing and priority.
To me, Both groups do the same things, just have different names, and say different things about eachother.
At least as far as vision/mission and service outreach.
....then why someone or somebody, or a group decided to break away? I think we should start thinking about how to continue the mission, after hearing tito Frank and Tito Joe speak. I think it's time to think on how to continue and intensify the mission. I think USA needs to decide where to go..the problem is not with the CFC IC, read the Bishops statements, never did they mention our CFC Council disobeyed the bishops, it was a condemnation coming from the other side...USA, please, decide..
Totally in agreeance...
for 3-4 months, we have sat and waited, prayed and hoped, spoke, and remained silent...
but we also let our guard down, many have not gone back to the vineyards to harvest, many have not gone back to the fields to watch the flock.
In the end, I Believe that we need to move on and serve God however we can. Everyone might as well start from the beggining in building relationships and trust again, because only actions will show your accountability and commitment to the words you speak.
The harvest is here, God's Kingdom is near.
God Bless
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